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JJ chatting with
> Victor...
>>> Texas was once part of Mexico. YOU should know that. Duh!
>> By your reasoning BBQ is a type of mexican food too. Hmmm....
> No, that's by your logic that cuisine follows political boundaries.
> My reasoning is...


you guys... (warming up that old hat again?!!...)

boring evening? TMFTOYH ???

I just opened a bottle of white...

..with a kanguruh on the label. Australian ?!?

come over and help me figure this out... bring BBQ! ;-)

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Cory,

That's a really Web fun site. Thanks!

And here, in FAQ #6, Mr. Peyton explains that Tex-Mex, Arizona Mexican, and
New Mexican cooking are "regional variations within the broad definition of
Mexican cooking""

http://www.lomexicano.com/faqmexicanfood.htm

jj

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werner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote:
> I just opened a bottle of white...
>
> ..with a kanguruh on the label. Australian ?!?
>
> come over and help me figure this out... bring BBQ! ;-)

Not if you're serving an Australian chardonnay! Now, if you were serving
a nice Shiraz....

--
Victor Martinez
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quoting Victor...
>> I just opened a bottle with a kanguruh on the label, white...
>> Australian for wine ?!? come over and help me figure this out...
>> bring BBQ! ;-)
> Not if you're serving an Australian chardonnay!
> Now, if you were serving a nice Shiraz....

they also sell Shiraz, I seem to remember that that one went
first when I taste-tested my way through the one-of-each lot
I'd brought home from Sun Harvest (they recently had a sale)...
...wasn't bad (would go better with that barbacoa, too... ;-)

anyways, those nice-and-boring Friday nights when one is sitting
on the keyboard with too much time... nice rain, wasn't it?
the weather this year is _highly_ unusual for this, the far-north-
west corner of "Ol' Mexico" in May... I wonder whom we'ld have to
bribe to get to keep it this way...

ob/Food: I added smoked oysters to a clam chowder out of a can and had
a Danish cheese with English crackers to go along with that Aussie
chardonney. ho-hum, all of it... but the best I could get together
"at the midnight hour" watching "The Roman Empire in the First
Century" on PBS... (nothing really new there either...)

it's a cool --and I mean COOL-- Saturday and the winds are
ablowing... 18 knots, gusting to (over) 25 since around 4am

http://www.austinyachtclub.org/WX/wind.htm

this is what it looks like out at Mansfield Dam...

http://wwwext.arlut.utexas.edu/omg/weather.html

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"Victor Martinez" wrote:
[snip]
> Really? So was it the Comanche or Apache that used to make enchiladas?
> Which one of them developed velveeta?

The Comanche and the Apache were newcomers to Texas, arriving after the
Spanish. Coronado encountered Apache, but that was not in Texas. Until the
horse was available, people couldn't wander too far from water. The Comanche
and Apache did not intermarry with the Spaniards/Mexicans except when they
took prisoners :-) Cheese did not exist in the New World until it was
introduced by the Europeans.

There were many other indigenous people, but they were assimilated or
annilated. Some were the mission Indians in San Antonio.

One year when Lake Travis was low, I was shown many burned middens and grind
stones along the shore by an achaeologist. At first I couldn't recognize
them, but as he trained us they became almost obvious. The "burned middens"
are the remains of cooking pits where game was cooked using a method very
similar to that described here http://www.lomexicano.com/barbacoa.htm as the
traditional method of cooking barbacoa. Why are these "burned middens" so
plentiful along the shores of the Colorado River? Have you ever tried to
dig a pit in the Texas hill country? Not much is known about the culture
and language of these indigenous people. However, it seems that Central
Texans were meat eaters long before the the cattle culture or the Atkin's
Diet. They ate a lot of deer, bison, turkey, rabbit, and other animals.

[snip]
> However, it has changed so much and it is so different from modern
> Mexican food, that it is unique. Does it have a common past with Mexican
> food, absolutely! Is it a subset of Mexican food? No more than creole or
> mexican are a subset of French food.

I'm pleased with your affirmation that Tex-Mex is an authentic regional
cusine with a Mexican past, and not some bad Anglo/Tejano interpretation of
"real" Mexican food. I think when many people hear "Tex-Mex is not Mexican
food", they infer the latter. That is also what some people imply when they
say it. Witness D. Rhodes' inane "chop suey" analogy.

I don't accept the Louisianna creole French analogy. Louisianna is
seperated from France by an ocean. The current contact with France in
nominal. Texas is adjacent to Mexico. There is a constant interchange of
people back and forth accross the border. Tex-Mex food changes sublty
across Texas. It is a continuum, which continues on into Mexico, or rather,
from Mexico on into Texas :-)

> > Etymology: American Spanish barbacoa framework for supporting meat over
a
> > fire, probably from Taino
>
> Except that barbacoa is never cooked on a fire, but *under* a fire.

I didn't say that, "Merriam -Webster Online" did. I agree that the BBQ
sold in Central Texas is not a Mexican food.

> Nice try though.

Thanks! You sir, are a gentleman! Here's a loaded question for you:

Is Yucatecan food Mexican food?

jj

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James Lee Johnson wrote:
> took prisoners :-) Cheese did not exist in the New World until it was
> introduced by the Europeans.

Obviously my attempt at being sarcastic failed. Sorry about that.

> [snip]

ditto.

> I'm pleased with your affirmation that Tex-Mex is an authentic regional
> cusine with a Mexican past, and not some bad Anglo/Tejano interpretation of
> "real" Mexican food. I think when many people hear "Tex-Mex is not Mexican

Just because there is a regional cuisine, that does not mean there
aren't bad anglo interpretations of real mexican food. I've had my share
of those. However, I fail to see how one could separate the former form
of tex-mex from the latter.

> I don't accept the Louisianna creole French analogy. Louisianna is
> seperated from France by an ocean. The current contact with France in

But you cannot deny the historical implication that I was trying to
point out.

> nominal. Texas is adjacent to Mexico. There is a constant interchange of
> people back and forth accross the border. Tex-Mex food changes sublty
> across Texas. It is a continuum, which continues on into Mexico, or rather,
> from Mexico on into Texas :-)

Maybe, maybe not. It is true that the border is like a third country,
with a culture of its own. However, so-called "interior" mexican food is
quite different than the stuff you'll find at your usual tex-mex joint.

> Is Yucatecan food Mexican food?

Let's see. Yucatan is a part of Mexico. Folks who live there are
mexican. Thus, the traditional foods they eat *are* mexican.

BTW, that link you sent me seems to imply that roasted cabrito,
barbacoa, and cochinita pibil are just variations of barbacoa. I very
much disagree with that assertion. The only thing they have in common is
that they traditionally use a wooden fire as a heat source. Other than
that, they are very different animals. Particularly cabrito.

And to answer your email, I am indeed from Mexico. I was born in Mexico
City, raised in Irapuato, Guanajuato, and attended college in Monterrey,
Nuevo Leon. I have also travelled extensively in my country and I have a
collection of cookbooks, both regional and national. I'm quite a fan of
food, you see. And yes, if you were to ask mexicans from all over the
country what barbacoa is, they would all pretty much describe the same
dish. Mind you, I've eaten barbacoa in several states, from Nuevo Leon
all the way down to Tabasco, so I kinda know what I'm talking about here.

Cheers.


--
Victor Martinez
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On Sat, 1 May 2004 05:24:39 +0000 (UTC), werner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
() wrote:

> I just opened a bottle of white...
>
> ..with a kanguruh on the label. Australian ?!?
>
> come over and help me figure this out... bring BBQ! ;-)

Speaking of which, where *is* our resident Australian?

-sw

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On Sat, 01 May 2004 21:05:08 GMT, Victor Martinez <me@nospam.com>
wrote:

>And to answer your email, I am indeed from Mexico. I was born in Mexico
>City, raised in Irapuato, Guanajuato, and attended college in Monterrey,
>Nuevo Leon. I have also travelled extensively in my country and I have a
>collection of cookbooks, both regional and national. I'm quite a fan of
>food, you see. And yes, if you were to ask mexicans from all over the
>country what barbacoa is, they would all pretty much describe the same
>dish. Mind you, I've eaten barbacoa in several states, from Nuevo Leon
>all the way down to Tabasco, so I kinda know what I'm talking about here.

Just don't call him a Mexican American, whatever you do.

-sw

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G'day

Steve Wertz <swertz@cluemail.com.gov.invalid> wrote:

> Speaking of which, where *is* our resident Australian?

Here I am. Climbing out from a pile of grading.

Reading this thread has finally made me realize that what Aussies call
bbq is what you've described as grilling. When Paul Hogan said "chuck a
shrimp on the barbie" he was really getting his terms confused for an
american. You guys would chuck a shrimp on the grill and we would chuck
a prawn on the barbie. Now I can put my finger on what always seemed a
little weird to me about calling brisket BBQ, but now it all makes sense.

Except many times when we are bbqing we dont' use an open grill, but
more like a heavy metal plate above the fire so the onion rings don't
fall through into the fire.

And we put beetroot (beets) on our hamburger. But that's another story.

ObFood: Thanks to whoever it was years ago who prompted me to go onto
the waiting list for Tecolate farm. Our number came up and we've been
getting fresh organic veges delivered every week. It's fun having to
come up with recipes to cook all these things I've never bought before.

DrRuth

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Ruth Shear wrote:
> G'day
>
> Steve Wertz <swertz@cluemail.com.gov.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of which, where *is* our resident Australian?
>
> Here I am. Climbing out from a pile of grading.

Beats the heck out of climbing out from a degrading pile, eh, Ruth?

Cheers,

Dusty

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Ruth Shear wrote:
>
> Reading this thread has finally made me realize that what Aussies call
> bbq is what you've described as grilling. When Paul Hogan said "chuck a
> shrimp on the barbie" he was really getting his terms confused for an
> american. You guys would chuck a shrimp on the grill and we would chuck
> a prawn on the barbie. Now I can put my finger on what always seemed a
> little weird to me about calling brisket BBQ, but now it all makes sense.
>
> Except many times when we are bbqing we dont' use an open grill, but
> more like a heavy metal plate above the fire so the onion rings don't
> fall through into the fire.
>
> And we put beetroot (beets) on our hamburger. But that's another story.
>
> ObFood: Thanks to whoever it was years ago who prompted me to go onto
> the waiting list for Tecolate farm. Our number came up and we've been
> getting fresh organic veges delivered every week. It's fun having to
> come up with recipes to cook all these things I've never bought before.
>
> DrRuth

Mmmm, prawns, as long as you do not throw them on the garbie :-) Also I
am finally talking a lot of my friends into eating beet root, but
freshly boild and served with a little goats cheese.

What kind of veggies are you getting?

JJ

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